So after making the comments last week that the 86 Mets were in "my opinion" one of the top 10 WS teams of all time, it got me to thinking, was I crazy for making that statement? Of course my Yankee counterparts pretty much said I was insane to put the 86 Mets with the great teams of the past who dominated the regular season & put it all together to make some unforgettable history.The 86 Mets were not only picked to win it all in 86 but they did it by dominating their division which they won by over 20 games of the 2nd place Phillie's. When you think of the 86 baseball season you don't have to think much before you immediately link it with the Mets, but when you think of "let's say 1983" can you name the WS winner?
I was 15 back in 86 & I remember it like it was yesterday. I remember where I was watching that famous game 6, I was watching it on a small black & white 19'' TV on the dirt roads parts of Sabana Iglesia, Dominican Republic. I remember how happy I was when the 9th inning came along & the Mets now just 1 out away from losing the WS, only they were ready to shock me & all of baseball.
Everyone hated the Mets & their braggadocios style on the field. I hated the Mets because I at the time was a Yankee fan & they were simply the better team in NY. The Mets were the Kings of NY in those days.
And now the debate, who are the 10 most dominating teams of all time? and how did I go about picking my teams?
These were my requirements. 1, a team must have at least 100 wins in a season
2, they must dominate or easily win their division. 3, that team must have a unique blend of style & team chemistry that said no one beats us.
Another requirement of mines is that I tried to only pick teams that played when everyone played together, blacks & whites, with the exception of the 1927 & 1939 Yankees. Again that's just my opinion, enjoy the list and get back to me if you have a team ready to replace the 86 Mets.
In no actual order
1 - 1927 - Yankees, "Murderer's Row."need I say more? 110-44
2 - 1976 - Reds, the Big red machine simply a team, swept the Yankees in the WS to make it 2 in a row, 102-60.
3 - 1998 - Yankees, the most wins in a season ever, total domination 116-46.
4 - 1961 - Yankees, Roger Maris & Mickey Mantel going for the Babe in route to the title, 109-53.
5 - 1970 - Orioles, last time a team had 4 20 game winners 108-54.
6 - 2004 - Red Sox, down 0-3 to the Yankees to win the next 8 games & finally ending the curse 105-53.
7 - 1984 - Tigers, Kirk Gibson, Trammel & Sweet Lou,& Jack Morris, I remember these guys were just that good 104-58
8 - 1967 - Cardinals, Bob Gibson with the most dominating WS pitching performance of any pitcher, this guy was scary 101-60.
9 - 1939 - Yankees, Joe D led the way to make it 4 WS in a row with back to back WS sweeps 106-45.
10- 1986 - and of course the Mets, Darryl & DOC, the Kid, Keith, these guys were good! The Mets improved their record of 98-64 from the 1985 season, to 108-54 in 86.
Here is a link to another top 10 list I came across when doing my research.
http://www.time.com/time/2003/worldseries/winners.html
36 comments:
Thats a very fair post, I must commmend you for that. So with that said you picked 10 teams but yet you're whole post is about the #10 team on your list. What about the other 9? They get a sentence while the Mets get 4 paragraphs. Whats up with that?
You know 86 and the Mets because you live in NYC and thats the Mets last claim to fame unless you want to count the many kick to the nuts of there fans the Mets have done the last 20 years. 2nd it was a memorable series not because the Mets won it but rather how the Red Sox lost it.
Oh, the Orioles won the 83 series. Didn't even have to look it up.
8 - 1967 - Cardinals, Bob Gibson with the most dominating WS pitching performance of any pitcher, this guy was scary 101-60.
No disrespect to Bob Gibson but didn't Don Larsen throw a perfect game during a World Series? Doesn't get much more dominant than that.
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Alright, now. 'What's up with that' is the first thing I thought of when I read this not "well researched" article.
Picture Samuel Jackson...
I don't commend you on a goddamn thing.
"I remember how happy I was when the 9th inning came along & the Mets now just 1 out away from losing the WS, only they were ready to shock me & all of baseball."
Is that so? The Mets were the ones that shocked you? It was all them? They were amazing? I beg to differ. That wasn't the way I remember it. I remember the Mets about to lose and then unargueably the worst error in World Series history happened. Yeah, the Mets shocked us alright. They shockingly were able to take advantage. What was that retarded slogan? Catch the falling stars or something?
Everyone hated the Mets? I just don't recall that. Not even close.
100 games, domination, team chemistry and the color barrier? Really? Do I have to get into my Seth Myers impression? Really? That's what you are going to use as criteria? Really?
Ray got you him good there. Larson vs Gibson for WS domination? I'll assume you are taking back what you said. It doesn't get more dominant than a perfect game.
The 2004 Red Sox??? Are you out of your mind dude? You have to be. I'm not even basing this on my hatred fir the Red Sux. It's just simply not true. Not even close. First you put the Mets in top 10 of all time now the 2004 Sux? You are short sided as he'll. The 2004 Idiots don't even make the top 30. They didn't win the division for goodness sakes. I can't do this anymore. I'm getting a brain hernia. It's spilling.
Freddy, let me help you out. Here's the link to the best and undoubtedly most thorough criteria based research of the top ten teams of all time. Even your Mets are included... on teams post 1961. They are ninth. It's a good long read. Enjoy:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/best_major_league_teams_ever.shtml
Danny, way to throw down the "whats up with that" alley oop I gave you.
I have to disagree w/you on the Buckner thing, even before that play the Sox were DONE. Stick a fork in them done. Another thing Danny, yeah everyone hated the Mets. They even wrote a book about it, "The Bad Guys Won" that's a lot hatred right there. Sure Mets fans loved them, all 50-60 thousand of them but everyone else hated that team.
The team chemistry thing stuck out at me as well. What does team chemistry mean? How do we know what team chemistry is and if a team has it? NESN, I mean ESPN told us a billion times that the 04Sox had chemistry but again how do they know? How is that measured?
So let me get this straight, you guys are ok with the Mets on this list? I thought you guys would throw in some teams to replace them.
Ray my post is about the 10 most dominating teams & the Mets, sure the Mets got the most paragraphs because it all started because of me mentioning them in such list & you guys saying I was crazy, it was because of the Mets all this even started, fair enough? It was one of the most memorable WS because of everything that went down & happen, & because of that it made it one of the most popular WS, making it memorable.
So you want to throw in Don Larson over Bob Gibson just because he won 1 game, granted it was a perfect game. Did you know that Larson career lifetime record is 81-91? did you also know that he pitched in one other game, game 2 of that same 56 WS & was given a 6-0 lead by the Yankee bats & did not get out of the 2 inning? Larson will always be remembered for that perfect game but if it wasn't for that perfecto Don Larson would be your average journey man on a great team who would not even be remembered. Please don't compare Larson to Bob Gibson who in the 67 WS won all 3 of his starts, again the most dominating pitching performance in any WS ever in my opinion. Danny, Ray should I be taking it back?
I just wanted to make my point that the Mets were good enough to be put in this list, I think I did. Do you have a replacement?
Freddy, you're hard headed. No. They don't belong on this list of all time. We told you that in the last post.
You weren't picking the 10 most memorable WS of all time. You were picking the 10 most dominating of all time. Do you even pay attention to what u write? In your last post it was the ten best teams of all time. The Mets don't make either list.
You talk about the most dominating performance in a WS by a pitcher. It doesn't get better than a perfect game. You bringing in Don's history has nothing to do with that specific moment. If you want to say dumb stuff like that then by comparison I can say dumb things like the Mets winning the 1986 WS wasn't that great because in 1962 they were fucking horrendous. Does that make any sense? No. The most dominating performance in a WS was the perfect game. Gibson could have won all four games but a perfect game it does not equal. So yes you should be taking it back.
You haven't made any point. What point are you talking about? I think Ray called you crazy in the last post. No no. It was more like are you out of your fucking mind. That sounded more like the language.
Oh and last thing, what is this about the ten most dominating teams AND the Mets. I only saw ten teams. It was more like the Mets and nine other teams. You are crazy dawg.
Nice try. A+ for effort. F for lack of knowing what your writing.
okie dookie Dan, sure Larson one game gem is better then 3 near shoutouts by one of the alltime greats.
Like the Yankees one that 56 series because of that perfect game, get real. The guy had 1 gem & 1 stinker in that series, take it back or just leave it at that.
Ray are you still going to say Larson over Gibson?
I just don't see the point of arguing logically about this.
So why don't you explain your ten teams AND the Mets. Clearly the Mets were part of your ten.
Or how about how you went from most dominating to most memorable. I can't keep up with your flotsam and jetson. Keep it in, get it out. I can't do it.
From what I saw the this weekend and knowing your reminiscent nature, I'm going to get you a boombox. Because ...
A boombox could change the world. A boombox is not a toy.
I wrote it and the title says "TOP 10 WS TEAMS DEBATE", call it dominating or memorable, this is just me using different words to make the same point, top 10 WS teams that dominated a season, like that better?
Clearly, IMO, the Mets are part of my list, clearly you differ, but that's ok too, just give me a team to surplant them.
Did you even bother to look at the fabulous website I gave you. Pick any team from there. I mean any team. Don't forget the boombox.
You want a team, the 1998 Yankees.
That was on your unauthorized original list. Am I talking to my little brother here?
My point is that I don't care about that list you found, I took my time & made mines, gave you my criteria, & even supplied you with one that I found online. You don't have to agree with me, just disagree & we'll leave it at that.
Danny I know I don't have any credibility with you & that my opinion will always be disputed by you.
It's ok.
That's not true. I Wouldnt say ANY credibility. I will say it isn't much. The problem is that you are in love with your team thatvyou can't see absurdities in the things you say. I'll give credit where it's due. This isn't one of those cases. I'm a huge Yankees fan but I'm an even bigger baseball fan. You say you did research I simply googled the greatest baseball teams if all time. I've used the baseball almanac fir many things but not for this. Their criteria is much more thorough than yours. Your research is like a poll where Faux News asks only Republicans if they want the healthcare bill "shoved down their throat."
Looks who talking about in love with my team, I talked bad about my Mets plenty of times on this blog, the problem is that when I say something positive about them you have a problem with it.
But you, you like to call yourself a baseball fan 1st, but you’re so in love with your team that you can't see the difference between Larson & Gibson.
I gave you my criteria on my list before I came up with the list, & if you go by that, because you know, it’s just my opinion, teams like the 1995 Indians don’t make the cut, unlike in that list you found online, they had their criteria & that's just them.
Dude I'm not shoving anything down your throat, you either take it or leave it just like Ray does.
Mr. world series perfect fame could have pitched for the Mets and he'd get his due from me. That's my point about me and baseball. You're crazy to tyr to make a point about me and "my team". No one hates the Mets more than Ray. Direct yourself there.
What do you mean you came up with the criteria of your list before you made up your list? They were on the sane post. That's like saying I wrote "this" before I wrote "this" again.
The 1995 Indians? What the hell are u talking about? What was special about them?
Ray doesn't take it or leave it. If your factually wrong he'll let you know:
-The 86 Mets among the 10 greatest teams of all time? Fred, you know I respect your opinion but are you out of your fucking mind? I'd give you top 10 of the last 30 years but of all time? I think not.
He respects you, but he isn't going to let you shit on him so you can tell him it's snowing.
Dude Ray can hate the Mets just like I hate the Yankees, & who cares, that's not the point, & so what if he wrote what he wrote about the fucking Mets after I said what I said, the thing is that after I came out with my list all he said was that he commend me for a very fair post, & that's all I can ask after that.
He did ripped me about the Larson & Gibson thing just like you did, but I'm still waiting to see if he still feels the same, & if he does whatever man.
Did u say the fucking Mets? I would say the same. It's not the players bro. It's the lack of organization that continually does the fans wrong. Guess what, the Muts and Red Sux in the world series? Go Muts.
Guess what, the Yanks & Phils in the WS, GO PHILS!
Sox vs Yanks, GO SOX!
Anything but the Yanks, & that's just me.
Ok, first of all Fred you need to be a bit more clear when you write things, because when you say the most dominating WS performance of any pitcher. A game? A series? If its a game then you can't dispute Larsen, you just can't because he was perfect. Now for a series then yeah you can say Gibson or whoever. To answer your question I'd take Gibson over Larsen any day of the week. You would have to be an idiot not to.
Freddy did title this 10 WS teams debate and made it very clear that all of this is his opinion. Danny, while that website is very good just because they say it doesn't make it so. I disagree with some of Fred's list but its my opinion, it doesn't make it any more valid than his or yours.
I dont think any list of all time teams is fair because the game has gone through so many changes over the years. I would like to see a list of top 10 WS teams from 1970-present.
Ray thanks for finally chiming in & clearing out things, but if I’m writing a list of the 10 best WS teams debate, I think I am talking about a entire WS & not just game 6, or Larson’s perfect game. Also when making my points, I was talking about how some teams swept some WS which again spoke about the entire series & not just 1 game as you guys want to make it sound like I did. I think it was self explanatory, but that’s just me.
So I guess now that things are clearer, Danny will change his mind & take Gibson over Larson.
Fred, sorry to break the news to you but:
"8 - 1967 - Cardinals, Bob Gibson with the most dominating WS pitching performance of any pitcher, this guy was scary 101-60"
Is not very clear. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or anything like that its just that it wasn't very clear, thats all.
Yea & that was followed by….
9 - 1939 - Yankees, Joe D led the way to make it 4 WS in a row with back to back WS sweeps 106-45.
or you can go with #6….
6 - 2004 - Red Sox, down 0-3 to the Yankees to win the next 8 games & finally ending the curse 105-53.
There is a series of games I am talking about here.
You just can’t take a small part of my post & then miss-label it & take it out of context just for the sake of argument.
Again I think it was self explanatory.
Ok man. This is how I would have worded it:
8 - 1967 - Cardinals 101-60. Led by WS MVP Bob Gibson who went 3-0, with 3 complete games and 1.00 ERA. Probably the most dominating pitching performance in a series.
Thats more clear and anyone reading it knows that you're talking about a series.
Yes sounds better, can I use you as my editor? JK.
Only 1 thing, I would not had said probably, for me "this was" the best pitching performance in WS history.
Ah, aren't we all cute and cuddly. I don't look for a couple of hours and everyone is sucking each others dicks. That's nice. The boombox really can change the world.
Listen, please take the 04 Sux out of that list and I'll shut up. That's a disgrace.
Lastly, I never said the baseball almanac WAS the be all end all BUT it certainly is better than the measly criteria my good Domincan friend Freddy used.
So after further review, I realize that the 2004 Red Sox’s did not win a 100 games like my criteria stated, they won 98 games. I guess I just assumed that the 2004 Sox’s had the amount of games needed under their belts because of what that team did that year to win the WS.
I mean that team did what no team in baseball history had done before, & to do it under those circumstances & to break the curse was simply unforgettable. Also that cast of characters stands out as one of the best in my book, Damon, Manny, Big Papi, Schilling, Pedro & the rest of the players on that team, like I said, stands out. I think you continue to show the 2004 Sux’s no respect because of what they did to your famed NY Yankees, I know it musta hurt and it seems to me like it still does. I remember Ray needed a few days before I was able to speak to him about that, & knowing how pissed off you can get, I can only imagine what you went through in 2004. So for your sake, the 2004 Red Sox are off the list.
Oh silly rabbit. You make a lot of assumptions.
Most of them wrong.
For my sake? I'm so happy now that you took them off the list I can show this list to the world.
Umm, this is still top 10 WS teams right and your talking about the Yankees vs the Sux? The Yankees beat themselves like rented mules in '04.
Breaking the curse was "unforgettable"
I forgot about the curse. You know that thing retards believe in. You have a whole nation of them.
But wait, maybe I should believe in the curse right? Who wouldn't believe the Red Sox were cursed? After all, the Mets did win the 1996 World Series. OH!
Hey you wanted the Sox's off the list so badly, well now there off, LOL.
I thought the Yankees won the 96 Series?
Also, if I remember correctly I remember sitting w/you in the hangout room after the Yankees lost game 4 and telling you that the Yankees would blow that series.
I remember that you did say something about the Yankees possibly blowing it, I don't remember if it was after game 6.
Yea remember me you & my boy from DR watching the games & me and my boy were going for the SOX's, that was the beginging of me hating on the Yankees, I could not believe it went down like that.
I meant to say after game 4, your prediction, but I do remember you saying something about the Yankees blowing it.
Obviously I meant '86.
Damn Ray I put a good one in there and nothing. Felt like Kramer for a second.
Anyway, Ray, I remember you hatin just slightly on the Yanks cause you wanted them to learn a lesson about not taking care of the farm and their way of doing business. I never wavered. So yes, I want a cookie.
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